Episode Transcript
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Hey, this is Lacey with Smartcast, and I'm here today with Josh Burrill, who is one of the owners of Burrill Watkins. They are part of our legal team, and we could not be more thankful for you guys. And I'm so excited to talk to you today about medical aesthetics and the legal side of everything and the law and all of that fun stuff.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Lacey. I appreciate it. And we're excited to be here and we've really enjoyed our relationship with smartskin. And in general, I think I'll kind of let you lead on what areas that you think your listeners would be interested in. But without a doubt, in general, the Medspa and aesthetics industry has kind of exploded. It's kind of become the darling of private equity and other investment firms, and they're kind of popping up everywhere. But with that, there's obviously been increased regulatory scrutiny and legal challenges due to rapid growth.
People trying to open them up, and then on top of that, there's the influx of, you know, everything from Botox injections to glutide, semiglutide, the weight loss drugs. And so I think in general, this is an area where I think there's more and more scrutiny, more and more awareness, and glad to talk about everything that would potentially impact some of your colleagues and listeners.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So, basically, how we came to get to know you specifically is we've worked with Josh Watkins, your partner, for a really long time. He's done just our family estate planning and just basic legal work for us. And over this past year, there have been some laser law changes in our state of Alabama. And so we sent everything over to him and he was like, everything looks good. No problems. And then my mom was like, no, let's look at it again. And so I think that the two of you had actually come across each other.
His kids go to your wife's school where she teaches. And it was just kind of like a fun coincidence that they kind of had a little bit of a history somewhat. And then, so because of your history at AFC and he brought you in, had you look over all of our stuff, and, of course, then, you know, history, you know, started from there. You guys got to really create something special together. And it's just. It's been a fast year. I can't believe it's already been a year, over a year now, I guess, since you guys started up, and we got to get to know you. And so it's been a lot of fun, but it's been a lot of work, and I'm excited about what's to come, for sure.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've been very fortunate.
You know, we are very thankful for our relationship with you and getting to know your team.
You know, over the last year, we've represented some of the largest MSO and private equity firms and companies in the healthcare space.
We've represented one of the largest groups of medical spa in the industry. And I think the thing that your mom rightly was to have some concerns is that the law is always changing. The regs are just updating, or there's also a new advisory opinion. And keeping track of all that is hard, especially in this industry, because your focus, number one, is to give good, quality care to your consumers and your customers and your patients.
And managing all that is very challenging. For example, you have so many different laws, but then the states vary in. The state of Alabama is very different from, let's say, the state of Illinois. In Illinois, if you do it correctly, you can have registered nurses as injectors for Botox.
In Alabama, it's a bit more gray. And I think what you'll find is there's also different constituencies, meaning you have the nursing board that have their interests in wanting to facilitate more independence in doing some of these things. But then you also have medical board that has an interest in making sure only providers are doing. Now, the rationale behind it, you know, you question, you know, what, what are the intentions? But in general, that's the thing that I would say for anyone listening, that your state rules might vary from, let's say, Alabama, but then also in addition to that, your circumstance may vary by the facts and circumstances. So, for example, a medSpA that is owned and operated and employs dermatologists, there's a lot more flexibility there because you have a doctor, you have. And so it's a lot easier to meet the regs as opposed to where you're setting something up and you don't have a doctor to rely on and a medical director. And the laws in Alabama regarding the use of collaborating doctors is very prescriptive, very technical. And that's something that I would advise folks to be aware of, is just to understand what the regs say about those relationships.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, and it's, you know, even the laser laws from state to state vary as well. I mean, I know that. I believe in Florida, estheticians can't operate in IPL, but in Alabama we can. But then in Florida, you have mid level injectors that are able to inject Botox and ha fillers. But in Alabama, we're the only state that does not. And then, of course, you, there's the dental board and their regulations for injections as well.
So, I mean, I just think that there's a lot of businesses that don't necessarily understand what they can and can't do, and they're just kind of like flying under the radar. And I think, you know, anybody that knows us knows that we like to follow all the rules. We dot all of our I's and cross all of our t's. And if it costs us more money to do it, then that's the right thing to do. And we do.
But what do you say to those businesses that don't know that they're doing the right thing or not? They're just doing what they've always done. And now the laws have changed and they've not made changes to accommodate that. Like, how does that work for them?
[00:06:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think from a business standpoint, and I think there's a balance. Right.
One of the balances that I try to make it clear, I live by this kind of 70 30 rule where my job as a lawyer is to be business minded and think about the business needs of the client, the operations, and to truly understand the client's business more than understanding the law, because 30% of it is the law. Understanding the technicalities and how it all works, you can find people that may be able to tell you what the law says, but not necessarily understand how to utilize it to operate in an efficient business. And so I think what you need to find is, I think for a business owner, they need to very make it clear to anyone they work with, what are your goals? What are you trying to achieve, what type of business you're trying to run. And I think from a business owner standpoint, and we all get like this, it's easy to kind of like, this is a lot. And you just want to kind of stick your hand head in the sand and just be like, I want it to be okay. But the reality is you can, a lot of times, prevent that stress from having to, like, stay up at night. Cause you're worried that time of investment, of time and some resources to get those things right. You can have a more fluid business and you can have more peace of mind than always worrying and always kind of like having that stress level. And I think that's really important is to get those things addressed so that you can operate your business. You can focus on the actual good quality customer care and driving your business forward. If you figure those things out at the front, and sometimes that's not attractive. But if you're looking to have more, I guess, peace and not stay up at night, I think that a business owner should think it doesn't have to be a constant state of stress. You do it one time, you evaluate it, and then you can move forward, and after that, it's kind of more straightforward.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And like you said, you know, the med spas that are fortunate enough to be owned and operated by physicians have a little bit easier time with it. Of course, you know, they have vacations and things that they do, too. And so I'm sure that they have things in place that they set up in their absence. But for a business like ours, we've been, you know, open for over 25 years. We're not physician owned. We do have medical directors, and we have collaborating mid levels that oversee our practice every single day.
So, I mean, it can be challenging for people that aren't physician owned. And there's some states that you can't have own a med spa if you're not a physician, but in Alabama, you can.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's right. It's. It's finding those challenges and finding people to work with to strategize. Well, because you can't do that in a particular state where you have to be physician owned. There's ways to figure out, well, what's the solution? So say I have one client that had a challenge of in particular state where the state regulations required there to be a medical director, and they had a hard time locating an employee medical director. And they, I mean, it was just kind of. It had to be addressed immediately. And in this state, what we were able to do is get an independent medical director contract with them so that they at least were required to kind of govern. And, you know, I think for your listeners, you know, like, they're like, what is a medical director like? What are their duties? What, what function do they serve? And really, it's the government and the state board of medicine and the public's interest to say, well, we need to make sure that if any clinical issues or health issues occur with a customer when they're getting a botox injection or a filler or something, that there's somebody who can supervise to know that there's. They're gonna get appropriate medical treatment right away, to make sure that there's compliance with the medical board rules, to make sure that the clinical staff are doing things appropriately. And so the interest is a good one. The interest is for the safety of the public and so a lot of times you find that. And so certain states where the state I'm referring to, it's a little more flexible, where they just need you to know that there's a medical directorate that's collaborating with you. There are other states that the law is a bit more gray on. How available are those medical directors supposed to be?
Should they be on site at the practice all the time, or can they be available through telephone or virtual? And again, that's an area where it varies state by state. And I would recommend to anyone listening, it's just really important to understand those technical issues because you may think you're fine, but then if really you dive into it, you find that there's areas where there are gaps. And unfortunately, that's where, from my experience, where people get themselves into trouble, it's not a matter of anyone's intentionally trying to violate the law. I've found very rare occasion where a business owner is just saying, well, we don't care. We know that this is illegal, so we're going to do it. That's just crazy. Anybody with sanity doesn't normally do that. A lot of times where you have the trouble is people just don't know. And unfortunately, under the law, ignorance is no excuse is the kind of the position. We don't care if you didn't know. And that's why they say, you know, that's kind of, if you're going to be in this business, you better know.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, and a lot of the medical device salespeople don't really know their day to day operations either. I mean, even if it's required that a physician sign off on the purchase of a piece of equipment, after that signed off and that equipment's been delivered, they don't know what's going on in the day to day operations, you know, I mean.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Right. I'm glad you brought that up. Cause we've seen situations where well intended medical device folks, but they're motivated by certain things.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Well, they don't know all the laws.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: State to state, and they don't have. And then, so you have. And this is where I would say to medical device companies and sales folks that there is some element where it's important to know what the requirements are for those people because you may have a potential sale for a consumer or a business that doesn't understand its own operations well enough that they might be agreeing to buy something that they can't actually use because they don't know all the rules.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I mean, that happens a lot. So.
And another thing that is just really blowing up this industry right now, especially, is semiglutide. So I know that there's been a lot of talk about semi glutide and the safety of it and, you know, the law around it and all of that. So talk to me. I know you deal with this a lot. So tell me your expert opinion on semiglutide in Alabama.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Well, I think it's really gotten to be huge, and I think to just give you a little background, the european company that initially made a big splash in this area about three years ago, when they brought it to market the next very year, they made a profit margin of over 500%, highly profitable and highly useful. And it seems to have good effects. There's some negative effects, but as probably in most states, the one area of semaglutide is there's also the idea of, can you compound semaglutide? And that's been an issue of litigation.
There are some Florida cases on it where this nationally litigated. And essentially the idea that has come about is you can't.
So the european company that manufactures this claimed a patent on it and tried to block others from producing it. Essentially where the courts came out is that you can't have a patent on water. Right? And that's interesting because the court's just like, you can't have a patent on water, is effectively what they're saying.
What the pharma company was trying to do, the european pharma company was trying to do is block others from producing it and selling it. They only wanted, obviously, them to buy their stuff.
So people started compounding. And by the way, hospitals and providers compound drugs all the time, different types of drugs. And you can have an FDA approved drug that you compound, and now it no longer is a technically an FDA approved drug. So it could mean you take the semaglutide and you compound it with b twelve or vitamin D, and now all of a sudden you have a different formulation of semiglutide. And that was the whole linchpin in it. Well, essentially where it's gotten is you can't stop others from doing this because you're basically saying you have a patent on water. And to that point, now the issues become like, now they're making digestible forms of it. Now you're hearing people giving instructions on social media and like TikTok and things of how to make your own type of weight loss drug that's as effective. And it's quite interesting.
The thing that I would caution, folks, about these things is if you're going to provide this and you're going to compound it, or if you're going to provide it, if you're going to compound the name brand types that are out there, it's important to ensure that there's a true medical consult, an evaluation and a plan done by a doctor so you don't risk liability for prescribing it to people who have everything. You know, there are rules about prescribing it to pregnant women and various things like that. And then in addition to that, if you're gonna compound it, which can be a great revenue source, there's a client that I recommended that if they wanna keep the stream of revenue internal, they could both own the medical practice or the med spa by the compounding pharmacy and be the ones to administer it. So you keep all of it internal.
The one issue that I would caution that the FTC and FDA have spoken out about, and a lot of states have prohibited it, is the use of salt based forms of compound and semiglutide. The effects have shown that salt based forms are much more dangerous. There have been a lot more adverse events and clinical issues with folks that tend to take salt forms that it's, in general being advised against nationally. But there are ways to utilize it for your practice where legally, now you can compound it with a partner or collaborating compounding pharmacy and you can prescribe it. And so it's much cheaper to do that than buying the name brand. It's just as effective and it's really become a hot button issue. You know, there are some people in the industry that are concerned, well, is this the next opioid crisis? Right. The next thing that's bad. But the literature and the jury on that is kind of out. That in general, a lot of clinicians see there are benefits to it and obviously become very popular. There are some really famous people that have used it and found good results. In fact, Elon Musk used it. And.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I am about 18 hours into the 20 hours audible of Elon Musk right now.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: So they haven't talked about him being on semaglutide yet.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah, no, he tried it and he actually had good results with it. So he attributes it to his weight loss. I think he gained some of it back, actually. It sounds like he must probably be a little under stress these days. Yeah, but, yeah, but no, it can be profitable if done right. But you also need to be very careful about the potential exposure from a liability standpoint, but also regulatory standpoint?
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's just really important. There's so many ways to get things online these days, and you just want to make sure that you are seeing someone who's a licensed professional that can, you know, undergo a good, you know, way to make sure that you're a candidate for it. You want to check the comorbidity.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: So most states require what's called a good faith exam so that they can kind of do assessment. And we've worked with clients on forming the policies and procedures, the documentation, so that you can do those assessments and you have those. But if you do it right, you can get into that business and limit your exposure and also provide a valuable service to your customers.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: Well, it's been a really great addition to our practice and for our patients to be able to have access to the semaglutide. And then, you know, now they're able to work on other things that they're excited about, you know, whether that's m face or Msculpt neo and things like that. And so now that they've lost the bulk weight, they can tighten everything up and help with the muscular system with Emsculpt Neo, and then with the m phase, it's building new bone, you know, density and lifting everything up in the face. So they're, they're really excited to be able to experience this, this new treatment, and they're able to get the weight off that they were struggling to get off otherwise.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, there's literature, clinical literature, to say that, you know, it has other benefits. You know, it's beneficial to certain people's heart conditions, things like that. But again, it's an area that I would caution any business owners that are thinking about getting into this space to just do their homework and to maybe work with legal counsel to make sure they do it correctly.
You know, if things do go wrong, the time and effort to just do that little extra work can prevent you from kind of having a catastrophe.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and like you said, this industry has gotten so hot over the past couple of years that everybody wants a piece of the aesthetic pie. And I think a lot of people are kind of moving away a little bit from insurance based businesses. So you're seeing, you know, gynecologists and eye doctors and other physicians in other specialties dabbling into the aesthetic market now. So tell me a little bit about how that works as far as, like, the legality of all of it and their patients that are, you know, insurance based patients and their aesthetic patients, how are they separating that? Are they, you know, having to have different databases? Like, how does that work for them?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. I think that in general, what you have to be aware of is what is a true medical condition that you're treating because it's medically necessary. So if a dermatology office or other offices provide true healthcare related services that are reimbursed by different, whether it be commercial payers or government payers like Medicare, you have to be aware that you can have additional services that you provide, but you can't offer. Well, if you come to our dermatology practice and your Medicare patient, we see you for your rash, we'll also give you a free Botox injection. That would be very risky behavior. It'd be seen as patient steering and patient inducement.
But at the same time, there's nothing wrong with having additional services that you advertise as cash pay. And quite frankly, to a lot of these private equity firms and investors, that is, and that's why you have a lot of non traditional groups. As you say, people want a piece of the aesthetic pie is because of the fact that it's repeatable. So a lot of these other areas will, you may take care of the condition, and now that you've taken care of it, it's not necessarily that the patient will keep coming back, but in that aesthetic space, you have a lot of these cash pay or areas where people are constantly coming back in as repeat customers. And so delineating the difference between the kind of voluntary things that patients can interact with and get services for versus what they can get reimbursed for, you kind of have to middle in line that, hey, you're coming in here for a true medical condition, we'll treat that. But if you notice that we have other things, feel free to ask about it. But we're not offering that in conjunction with your medical services that you're legitimately here for. These are things that we offer, and you can ask about it.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: So they can't send out, like, an email blast, promoting their aesthetic services to their medical patients database?
[00:24:16] Speaker B: Well, that's a gray area, and I think that's circumstantial. So I want to be very careful about what that means because there's also HIPAA and privacy and utilizing medical patients, because now that you have this whole list, just to be clear, medical databases are one of the most valuable databases people want from a marketing perspective. So a lot of times, just simply from a medical perspective, if a patient's been there as a current patient. You can give them updates about, hey, you have a follow up exam or your annual screenings coming up, their medical care.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we can't even send out marketing to our client database unless they opt in to our marketing.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Right. And so that's something we've helped clients with, is to have like an opt in opt out program. Typically the reason you want to do the opt in is so that they can be very clear that they do want to participate as opposed to if you do opt out. Well, a lot of patients, just realistically in the governance position, is they'll just ignore the opt out. And so you're now enrolling them without them really knowing it because they don't take that effort to opt out, but to opt in, there's ways to do it. Text message, I mean, there's rules around what you can text message and how often. I mean, there's a FTC rules on that, so you just gotta be very careful. And I think to your point about, you know, what would we tell business owners? I mean, on top of, you know, we've talked about everything from semi glutide to how to operate to Botox injections and all the different rules. But you also have HIPAA and all these other regulations, and it's a lot. And there may be business owners that can figure it out, but more than often, after you've run a successful business, it's these type of things that kind of get you before you know it. And I think I like to, I've come up with this good example of kind of telling people about how to look at compliance for their business as a benefit. And it's valuable and I tell the story. So my family and I love the holidays. I'm super busy, but during the holiday season, I kind of thanksgiving to Christmas, I tend to say I'm really going to focus on spending more time with family. And so after thanksgiving, after every meal, our family gets together and does board games. And usually we play Monopoly. I'm terrible at it. I get creamed by my kids. But there was this one time we were playing monopoly and it was getting to the point where people were buying hotels and everything, and my wife had landed on and go straight to jail. And some events that happened after that, it kind of confused me is that my wife would roll the dice to try to roll doubles to get out of jail every time. And in the meantime, other people were going on their properties and my son had landed on one of her properties with a hotel and he was like, and she was like, pay up. And he's like, no, no, no. When you're in jail, you don't get paid. And she's like, oh. And then so she was rolling, and she was like, and I was like, why are you rolling to get out of jail? Why don't you just pay the fee to get out? She was like, well, I'm not gonna pay because it's dollar 500 to get out of jail. And I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I do.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Because we talked recently.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: You ask people the question, they'll give you various answers on what? How much do you pay to get out of jail? Monopoly. There's 500, 200. And finally, what we found out is you only have to pay $50 to get out of jail. So all that time she's sitting in jail, rolling three times to try to get out, when she could have just paid dollar 50, she's like, I didn't know that. And that would have invariably changed the way she played the game. In addition to that, the rule about you can't collect money while you're in jail, that's not true either. You can absolutely collect money if somebody lands on your property while you're in jail. So why do I tell that story? And I've used this as national conferences, and I kind of use that example, and the reason I use that example is, if you think about it as compliance as not this drag or this annoyance, or knowing the law as not annoyance, it's kind of like how that game of Monopoly played out. If you know the rules and you know the landscape you're working in, it will change your strategy and change how you conduct business so that you can be more successful. If you know the landscape and, you know a, B, and C, I need to do this. It's going to change the way you do things and ultimately make you more successful and give you a better chance at growing your businesses even further.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think there are so many business owners that just don't have an understanding at all in a lot of different areas. And so it's been hugely impactful for us to be able to work so closely with both you and Josh and then also with Bobbi, our accountant, and just all working together as a team to come up with a strategy and how we're gonna, you know, handle our business moving forward. And, you know, we have a lot of big plans for growth and wanting to add all of these additional, you know, capacities to our business and what we're doing. And then also, it's a legacy business going to be passed down, you know, to my daughters. And then if Sage has children ever, one day maybe they'll get involved as well. But, you know, we have a vested interest in this company continuing to grow and be successful. And I feel like us all coming together and coming up with that plan and making sure that we're not just assuming that we know what the plan is and we know, you know, how to, how we need to move things around if we need to, based on our goals and the projects and any opportunities that come our way. For you guys to, as the experts in the field that you're in, say, that's great, but let's do it this way, or that's great, but let's do this first and then let's do that. And just making sure that we're making the best choices for ourselves.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think I get a lot of self gratification in watching a business that started small and helping them to grow and become bigger. And I think the biggest piece of advice I would give to any listeners or business owners is that these things will make you more successful in the end in putting them time. Because what's the most unfortunate part is I've had clients that have spent a lifetime, blood, sweat and tears building a successful business and to have it all unravel, because for years they've not knowing the rules, not knowing the regulations, and all of a sudden they get a knock on the door and they're like, oh, no. And it's been tough. I've had CEO's of major companies that didn't know that they grew up. There's one client in Virginia that had come over here from India, started his company, and they had operated for about 20 years. And because they didn't really understand all the technical rules around their business, unfortunately, it created a place where they had to unwind their business because ultimately they were facing some scrutiny that was just hard to overcome. And so in general, putting in the effort and the time and the process of getting all these things right will make you be in a position to ultimately succeed beyond just today. But as you pointed out, to have a legacy that you can leave behind.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, and, you know, the laws do change and you have to stay up to date on all of that and you have to be able to adapt and adjust. And, you know, we at this time last year didn't require to have our nurse practitioner be here full time, and now we do. So, I mean, if we hadn't have been up to date on knowing what all was going on, then we could have been out of compliance, and that would have not only put, you know, myself and my mom and my daughter and my family at risk, but also all of our employees as well. So, I mean, when we make decisions and we do things like this, it's for everybody. It's for all of our patients and it's for all of our staff, and it's to make sure that we're not just living in ignorant bliss when it comes to the health and safety of the decisions that we're making that affect everybody.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. And that's why it's been such a good partnership with you and your mom and sage, that working with clients that has a vested interest in it. In fact, I I gave kudos to your mom. She was very rigid and so were you about, you know, we want to get this right. And that's very encouraging to me as an attorney who wants to encourage, I mean, you have clients that sometimes are very resistant, but you and the team here has been nothing but collaborative and wanting to get it right. And I think that speaks to your success. And, you know, what I've noticed about your practice and youre, your business is that, you know, no small detail goes unnoticed from the aesthetics at the actual site to your staff. And I'm very, I can't speak more highly about what you guys have done here.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: Thank you. Well, it was funny. We went to Arizona to the AMP owner summit this time last year in Arizona, and I'm getting ready to leave to go there tomorrow with Mary Margaret and one of the two girls that we met when we were there because they flew us there to do our podcast and interview all of their speakers. And two girls that have a mobile injections business.
They told me that one of their business partners is an attorney and she was a good friend of theirs. And she was just like, I had no idea that that was going to be as valuable as it was because I had no clue that I would spend as much time and effort talking about the legalities of everything as I have. And I was like, you are not telling me anything I don't already know, because we had just kind of started our journey together. And so I was like, me either. I was like, it's a lot. There's a lot that goes into it.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: So. Well, I'm really excited about everything that we have coming down the pipelines, and I'm super thankful to have the Josh's and Katie to help us along the way. And of course, Sarah is amazing. We love her, but you guys help us with all of our stuff, and no job is too small. Katie's been great helping me get together all of our stuff, our training center in that project. And so I'm super thankful because I can tell you all the ideas, but writing it all out and putting it together is, like, it's not my strong suit. And she loves it. She's like, I'm ready.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Glad to hear it. Yeah.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: And then Josh gave me a little sneak peek. He was like, I got bored and built you a little website. I was like, thanks, Josh. So. But I think we've got a long way to go, especially as we're moving into other states outside of Alabama, of course, you know, we're gonna have a lot of work cut out for us, but couldn't be more thankful for such an amazing group of people to help us. And my mom says all the time that we have the best team, and she just thinks that you're, like, the smartest person she's ever met.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: So I don't know about that, but I appreciate it, so. Well, again, it's great working with all of you. And I do think that this is an area that I think is going to still see probably more growth. I can tell you that talking to national clients of mine, that they're constantly trying. I mean, truly, this space has probably become one of the darlings of the private equity investment world because of the repeatability of the business.
To your point, I've introduced you to people in the past, and they've just remarked on just how impressed they were with you as a person and your business. And I think that's the one thing that I think the biggest piece of advice is not from a legal standpoint, but just a business standpoint, is just how repeatable it is and how well run it is and how run the operations are. And that's something that you and your mom and sage have done a great job at.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: Thank you.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I had a lot of fun talking about the law. Surprisingly, you knew that the law could be so fun. I had just as much fun last week talking about software development. So I guess that maybe I'm just a nerd.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, I think there's something to that. So. And again, thank you for having me and appreciate again our partnership.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: Of course. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of Smartcast. And we'll see you next week.
